Curse

Braxton619 · Dec 27, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Which do you like putting in your minion master's build more? I generally use JB but I want peoples opinion on this. Which would you think is better in this build: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/any_Minion_Bomber

Desert Rose · Dec 27, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Far an human or an hero?
In my experience heroes use Aura of the Lich not very intelligent, but can use JB nearly perfectly; for a human players it's vise-versa.

Gennadios · Dec 27, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Honestly, both are pretty efficient.

I personally favor AotL only because it has to be spammed alot less, which somewhat solves the problem of minion bombers always lagging spirit range behind the party recasting goddamn Jagged Bones and Death Nova.

With AotL they only lag about aggro range behind.

Kawil · Dec 27, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

If want to go with a bomber and it's for hero, I'd go with Jagged. For a human, being a bomber is a bit tougher as you have to target individual minions with Nova and the same with Jagged. Heroes do bombers easier...Humans do Aura easier.

Xenomortis · Dec 27, 2009, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Neither. I tend to use a support based elite (Empathic Removal and Divert Hexes in particular).
With minion bombers, the elite isn't important and so you're free to take more useful support stuff.

If I had to choose between the two though, I would go with AotL. Jagged Bones I find largely pointless - if I want a more durable minion wall that isn't totally destroyed after one nuke, I'd take Animate Shambling Horror.

But whatever you do, don't waste your elite on some shit like Icy Veins.
Why is that still on PvX?

Swahnee · Dec 27, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

The point of Jagged Bones isn't to make a minion more durable, but to get a new minion when that with JB dies, without having to exploit a corpse. I think that JB is useful for the core concept of the minion bomber build: make minions die and reborn and re-die often so to fuel necros with energy.

However, i agree with Gennadios about the fact that those minion bomber heroes are terribly slow, having to cast death novas and JB on minions while travelling around the map, and i also agree with Xenomortis on Icy Veins being a terrible skill: his job is done much better by Putrid Bile, which also isn't elite.

I find AotL useful only in areas with few corpses, but i don't use that elite much (in fact i use it mostly in low-level areas, where the fire elementalist hero nukes everything around, and the necro summons 8 minions all at once with AotL).

smilingscar · Dec 27, 2009, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Jagged bones is nice because it make your minion bomber more efficient; AoTL is nice because it makes you faster.

Having played with both, I'm a bit more partial to Jagged bones on heroes. They use it better, I think. Jagged bones on heroes is efficient enough to let me run two MB's in most areas, which is kind of awesome in its own way.

That said, I can't imagine bothering with JB on my necro character. I'd definitely pick AoTL.

Xenomortis · Dec 27, 2009, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

The point of Jagged Bones isn't to make a minion more durable,

Your minion wall is made more durable.
JB doesn't get applied to many minions soon enough before they die, so I find Shambling Horrors pretty much make up for it.

jonnieboi05 · Dec 27, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

JB for heroes. AotL for humans.

Chthon · Dec 28, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Neither for a human minion master. OoU.

JB for a hero minion bomber. Presuming your hero is going to be able to use up every corpse that drops with a non-elite animate spell, all AotL gives you is the +1 Death and a corpse-free minion once every 47 sec. JB gives you a corpse-free minion every 16 sec. I'll usually pick the bonus minions.

Also, since neither of these elites is too great, running something like Empathic Removal is certainly a viable option.

ruemere · Dec 30, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

This is the build I have used to successfully complete Dzagonur Bastion HM (with partner) and Aurora Glade HM (alone and with partners). The reasons for success were:
- quick deployment of minions - the minions are not just quick to engage opponents, they are also fast enough to reach elementalists before succumbing to AOEs
- very self-sufficient in terms of both energy and self-healing
- does not slow down the rest of the party (both healing skills are shouts)
- provides great support with both Discord and rez signet

Necromancer Paragon MM Bomber Speedster
OAljUwGopSxMVVoBVBbh7Y6YybA
<pvxbig>
[build prof=N/P death=12 sou=8 comma=10][Discord][Signet of Lost Souls][Death Nova][Animate Bone Minions][Masochism]["Fall Back!"]["Help Me!"][Signet of Return][/build]
</pvxbig>

(staff +60 hp, Survivor/Vitae/Vigor, Major or Superior Death, Minor Soul Reaping)

Variants:
- replace Discord with Aura of the Lich (fewer fleshy mobs) or Jagged Bones (a lot of fleshy mobs, speed is less important)
- replace Masochism with Putrid Bile (for NM mostly, also it allows to meet Discord requirements on its own)

Regards,
Ruemere

_Nihilist_ · Dec 30, 2009, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Jagged Bones goes on my Hero MM bars for the most part, unless I need additional Hex/Condi removal, at which point it's Empathic Removal.

Reinforcing the Minion Wall usually wins out.

As always, I micro Death Nova off when we finish a fight and back on before we re-engage to help keep my MM and the Minions from lagging too far behind.

AndroBubbles · Jan 05, 2010, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawil

If want to go with a bomber and it's for hero, I'd go with Jagged. For a human, being a bomber is a bit tougher as you have to target individual minions with Nova and the same with Jagged. Heroes do bombers easier...Humans do Aura easier.

Actually, an update some time ago causes JB to automatically target a minion that isn't already enchanted with it. It's now much more viable on a human player, albeit less accurate if you're only trying to target the minions with low health. Still, the duration of the enchantment makes up for this weakness.

Kenzo Skunk · Jan 05, 2010, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nihilist_

As always, I micro Death Nova

Nooooo!!! We want something with zero effort.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 05, 2010, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenzo Skunk

Nooooo!!! We want something with zero effort.

Play Bejeweled

aspi · Feb 02, 2010, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruemere

This is the build I have used to successfully complete Dzagonur Bastion HM (with partner) and Aurora Glade HM (alone and with partners). The reasons for success were:
- quick deployment of minions - the minions are not just quick to engage opponents, they are also fast enough to reach elementalists before succumbing to AOEs
- very self-sufficient in terms of both energy and self-healing
- does not slow down the rest of the party (both healing skills are shouts)
- provides great support with both Discord and rez signet

Necromancer Paragon MM Bomber Speedster
OAljUwGopSxMVVoBVBbh7Y6YybA
<pvxbig>
[build prof=N/P death=12 sou=8 comma=10][Discord][Signet of Lost Souls][Death Nova][Animate Bone Minions][Masochism]["Fall Back!"]["Help Me!"][Signet of Return][/build]
</pvxbig>

(staff +60 hp, Survivor/Vitae/Vigor, Major or Superior Death, Minor Soul Reaping)

Variants:
- replace Discord with Aura of the Lich (fewer fleshy mobs) or Jagged Bones (a lot of fleshy mobs, speed is less important)
- replace Masochism with Putrid Bile (for NM mostly, also it allows to meet Discord requirements on its own)

Regards,
Ruemere

That also sounds like fun, have to try this. If I find one thing annoying about minion bombers is that they alwasy lag behind where they should be a wall protecting me and my monks.

Lord_Squinty · Mar 20, 2010, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruemere

This is the build I have used to successfully complete Dzagonur Bastion HM (with partner) and Aurora Glade HM (alone and with partners). The reasons for success were:
- quick deployment of minions - the minions are not just quick to engage opponents, they are also fast enough to reach elementalists before succumbing to AOEs
- very self-sufficient in terms of both energy and self-healing
- does not slow down the rest of the party (both healing skills are shouts)
- provides great support with both Discord and rez signet

Necromancer Paragon MM Bomber Speedster
OAljUwGopSxMVVoBVBbh7Y6YybA
<pvxbig>
[build prof=N/P death=12 sou=8 comma=10][Discord][Signet of Lost Souls][Death Nova][Animate Bone Minions][Masochism]["Fall Back!"]["Help Me!"][Signet of Return][/build]
</pvxbig>

(staff +60 hp, Survivor/Vitae/Vigor, Major or Superior Death, Minor Soul Reaping)

Variants:
- replace Discord with Aura of the Lich (fewer fleshy mobs) or Jagged Bones (a lot of fleshy mobs, speed is less important)
- replace Masochism with Putrid Bile (for NM mostly, also it allows to meet Discord requirements on its own)

Regards,
Ruemere

Am I missing something here?

You're trying to run discord without anything to cause conditions or hex spells....

Are you relying on others to cast these for you?

Otherwise - nice build

gaffa cake · Mar 29, 2010, 09:46 PM // 21:46

i dont really like either of those skills.... but i prefer jb if im gonna use one of them

order of undeath is my favorite... i love sheer damage

Necromas · Mar 29, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

I like Animate Flesh Golem and Order of Undeath when I MM as a player just because I like to have strong standing armies rather than exploding ones and who wants to micro death nova manually anyways.

For heroes I guess I prefer AotL just because they can get their army back up faster if something bad happens and it makes them more mobile compared to jagged bones.

Estief Yu · Apr 07, 2010, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

The point of Jagged Bones isn't to make a minion more durable, but to get a new minion when that with JB dies, without having to exploit a corpse. I think that JB is useful for the core concept of the minion bomber build: make minions die and reborn and re-die often so to fuel necros with energy.

However, i agree with Gennadios about the fact that those minion bomber heroes are terribly slow, having to cast death novas and JB on minions while travelling around the map, and i also agree with Xenomortis on Icy Veins being a terrible skill: his job is done much better by Putrid Bile, which also isn't elite.

I find AotL useful only in areas with few corpses, but i don't use that elite much (in fact i use it mostly in low-level areas, where the fire elementalist hero nukes everything around, and the necro summons 8 minions all at once with AotL).

mm yea, but even JB can be useful in areas with low corpses, esp with shambling.